LORDS OF APATHY

December 15, 2011

U.S. POLITICS FOR DUMMIES


9 comments:

tweeter said...

dont forget unions holmes, way too much influence

Snickerdoodles McPoppycock said...

Are you talking about the same unions who's purpose is to protect workers from being exploited by the corporations they work for? Are you being serious?

Anonymous said...

co-sign on unions. the money they throw around is just as damaging as cash from "evil corporations." just because unions can (but not always) help workers doesnt mean theyre noble organizations. everyone in congress is controlled by someone bankrolling them. unions are part of the problem.

Snickerdoodles McPoppycock said...

Is there corruption and inefficiency within unions? -Yes of course. Does it rise anywhere near the level of corporations?-Absolutely not. Unions are the only thing standing in the way of a HUGE section of the American Labor force being treated like 3rd world sweat shop slave laborers. You don't think so? -The corporations don't seem to have a problem doing that everywhere else in the world, you don't think they'd do it here if they could get away with it?? C'mon... You mean to tell me that you bought into that bullshit talking point about union pensions being "outrageous"? Give me a fucking break! Have you seen how much your average CEO gets paid to LEAVE a company after he's run it into the ground? I dont begrudge any auto worker the right to lead a comfortable life after putting in 30-odd years being on their feet 8-10 hours a day making cars.
You guys are comparing apples to asteroids here.
Yeah, some unions are fucked up and corrupt, but that being said, if they are standing in the way of WalMart completely trampling on the rights of their workers, you know who's side I'm on.
Who do the unions side with, the Occupy movement, or the top 1% ? The Occupiers have no interest in allying with the Democrats, who in theory should be sticking up for the little guy, but instead, they ally with the unions.

Anonymous said...

Unions were outspent 22 to 1 in the 2010 election. Seven of the top 10 donors were corporations. Unions make up 12% of the workforce. Your union arguments don't hold water, tweeter&Anonymous.

Kill that victim complex...it's straight up bullshit to perpetuate the myth that 150 million Americans are lazy, rather than 400 Americans are greedy.

Get your shit straight and stop eating your own tail.

-iputajihadonyou

tweeter said...

ooooooh yes, you're right... jimmy hoffa and the boys are just tryin to help out the little guy!! HA
the workers need power and a voice, but the union leaders are corrupted it seems to me

"outspent 22 to 1"
does that means that does that mean that 1 out of every 22 dollars come from the unions? THATS A LOT OF FUCKING MONEY!! money taken by dues from their republican, democratic, third party and non voting members, and given exclusively(to the best of my knowledge, i'm sure there are exceptions) to the democratic party?

i've only really heard negative examples of the unions, but i'm gonna have to research it quite a bit more

Snickerdoodles McPoppycock said...

You've only heard negative examples of unions because the corporate news media only wants to promote a biased negative view of unions. After all, they are the CORPORATE media. They own CORPORATIONS, and tbe goal of those corporations is to make as much profits For their shareholders and CEOs as possible. That means things like employee benefits, raises, vacation time. safety etc. are only seen as expenses that lower profits. If providing living wages, healthcare and pensions are gonna lower the CEO and shareholders profits by even a fraction of a percent, then they are seen as counterproductive to their interests. Is there a lot of money in unions? -Yes. Can they sometimes be corrupted? -Yes. But overall, if their stated purpose is to be a counterbalance to the interests of the CEOs and stockholders (Wall Street), then I think you understand the point I'm making. Props on being open to looking at it from a different angle. I think all of us need to question a lot of things we've been trained to accept as true.

NV said...

Once again Snickerdoodles espousing extreme real talk.

While it's true that organized labor's marriage with politics has been steeped in greed, kick-backs, and back-door dealings that benefit a selected few instead of the intended working class at large, it goes without saying that the collective bargaining power of organized labor is the primary reason workers were given: child labor laws, Factory safety requirements, workers' compensation, defined benefit retirement, the 40-hour work week.

In the late 19th, and early 20th century workers got out on picketlines to fight for the things workers take for granted today. Many of them were badly beaten and killed by Pinkertons, the U.S. military, police, and hired factory goons. All of basic benefits workers wanted cost money and cut into profits, and if you think the robber barrons at the helm of industry wanted to give them up freely you're sorrowfully mistaken.

You're right, organized labor comprises 12-13 percent of the workforce, and their numbers are always dwindling. We'll likely see the end of the pension system in the next few decades--a benefit mostly enjoyed union members and government employees. Once we're all working for 10 dollars an hour and dependent on the money in the bank that doesn't earn enough interest to keep up with inflation, 401ks and the stock market, panicking at every manufactured bust of the economy, worrying whether we'll ever be able to retire, we might decide that the benefits of organized labor weren't all bad afterall.

Remember, even if you are not a union employee, if you are in the trades or a blue collar job, your employer is affording you benefits and pay they wouldn't have to offer if they didn't have to be competitive with union employers. Once that has become a non-factor they will pay you what they want to pay you, and if you don't like it you can go take an equally low-paying job with minimal benefits somewhere else..

Detroit Murder Dog said...

I'm not going to get into the merits of unions here as Snick has already gone in on it. However, it ain't all good in the world of unions as government worker unions are literally killing Illinois.

My state is in abysmal financial shape. Part of it is horrible mismanagement from politicians, but a huge part is attributable to the unbelievable benefits given state government workers. Our state taxes have skyrocketed in part to keep pace with the cost of those benefits. With Illinois in such dire financial straits, an easy way to relax the tax burden is to cut back on those benefits.

There have been various proposals to scale back those benefits for new hires, leaving current workers with their existing benefits, but even something as obvious and simple as this is a non-starter since Illinois' governor and every Dem state legislator are in the pockets of the unions. It is truly unbelievable. We continue to get deeper into debt and unions won't back off benefits for PROSPECTIVE union members? GTFOH. If you have ever dealt with an Illinois state employee (e.g., the DMV)-- generally a horribly frustrating experience chalked up to laziness or indifference-- you want to put your fist through the wall thinking about their insurance and retirement benefits that are a million times better than what anyone in the private sector could expect. So, yeah, fuck state government unions.

I'm not even going to get into union leadership which is so corrupt it makes me sick.